I play DL atleast 8 hours a day and the 3 things I always hear is con loss sucks, nothing loading everything is maxed and when is new zones going to be put in.

I see these issues being a big problem and the main reason why player base sucks. I know you want DL to be more realistic but do we cast spells in real life, die and come back from the dead. I am all about challenges in games but when i hear on a daily bases that con loss sucks and see another newbie quit because of that i get concern.

As for loads and zones I think new zones need to be added I know this takes time But my suggestion to this is what can we do to move this further along? I know your waiting for macros to get done but it's been almost 3 years with no zones and hearing from players who have finished a zone that it's been 2 years and not checked. I know things in the games take time to get done but it seems to get longer and longer DLDs is a good example I always hear it's going to be soon another year goes by same thing.

But striaght to the point I think con loss just needs to go that right there would improve player base. As for loads and zones I think adding new zones would help people get better gear and help improve player base. (even if macros are not ready to be added) I know this takes time But that's when us players need to step up and say nezmar what can we do to help? How can we get the ball rolling and keep it rolling?

sorry for the rant and grammer just trying to state the truth of player.

Also My regen was about 240 mana a minute with 5 players on and now it's 60 a min with 10 players on what is up with that?


Nusa, the Esteemed battle cleric of the raven.

Well...yes, in real life people die and come back from the dead. They are called ZOMBIES! Hello!!!!!

I'd love to see new zones. We need to advertise DL, get it up on the voting boards and vote. I remember taking 2hrs a day and bashing boards to voted and post stuff good about DL. It helped with new players.

I don't care for DLDS, doesn't nothing for me, so i wont comment.

Con loss, i'm pretty good when it comes to dieing, but I agree with new players quiting because of it. Perhaps a set lvl to have it at? 30's? 40's?

240 mana a minute, huh? I regen 2hp a mintue. try that out.

I think that setting it to a level limit is a bad idea people die becuase it's not there fault sometimes like lag spikes, taking four prompt to stand after a bash, and also losing con trying to learn how to kill a new mob that they have never killed before. When you get to my level and start losing con helpping people level are trying to get new gear for others con has priortiy and when it gets to low you have to stop helping them then they stop playing. but i do think if it is used 100 should be the limit or maybe higher have to give newbies a chance to learn the game.

I do stay firm on this con loss needs to go.

I think there are a few things. First of all huge respect and kudos to Nezmar for how far the game and other things have come. What are the things that have been keeping more new players from coming in?
We have had an influx of new players recently and its great. Will DL ever be back to the way it was before the p-wipe? Probably not, but what has changed to make it that way?
There was a time when I think some staff members drove players away.
Con loss I think has drove some players away and possibly keeps players from coming.
RP I think has drove some players away.
The lack of anything new (ie. zones and eq) I think keeps some people from playing as much as others.

I dont think any of this will change though. I think Nezmar has made the game the way he has intended it to be and I believe he is happy with it (as far as the game is concerned). What can we do about it? I'm not sure if there is anything that we can do other than spread the word like we do. I don't think DL will ever be back to the way it was 8 to 10 years ago. I remember when you could log on and there was always at least 15-30 people on no matter what time of day. I enjoy playing DL and I also enjoy helping people on the game. I agree with Liniti though, now that my character is at 2 con I think its time to stop playing as much and not help people or take any form of risks.
Thats my 2 cents. Take it for what its worth and I really hope things change.

I don't necessarily agree that our player base will never be like it was before. If you've never noticed, the player base in DL tends to fluctuate quite a bit. Seasons even seem to play a part of it. Generally in the winter time I see more people logged on than I do in the summer time.

I agree that our player base isn't as strong as it was before the wipe. But you have to realize, the players we had before the wipe we had accumulated over many years. At the player wipe, there were many who felt that they needed to move on. It might take a while to accumulate that kind of dedicated player again.

Another thing to take into perspective is that before the wipe, the game was definitely more hack & slash-ish. You didn't have to be RP approved to RP. You could toggle the flag at will. These sort of things lead to easier understanding and less confusion.

Compound that with a very competitive player base (especially for items, but that isn't like it used to be, either) along with everything else, and you can see that DL has evolved into more of an elitist MUD.

Sure, there are people that help other people, but they're always in for themselves first. It's human nature. If I loaded a Super two-handed Sword of Awesomeness +20 you'd be damn sure I'd keep it for myself. If there were someone with me that helped? Well... There's kind of a system in place for that, too, that doesn't really apply to the topic.

Anyhow, we are the way we are. The game is the way it is. New people will come, veterans will leave or take recesses. It's just the way that things work. Sure, there's things we could do to improve our chances, but I believe that Nezmar is doing everything in his power to make sure the game moves forward.

What can the rest of us say that we've done?

I think i need to be more clear here.

I think DL is one of the best coded mudds on the net and has a very good potenial to be the best mudd on the net.

The problems i see mostly is players and staff being closed minded.

They seem to rant about the problems and think that's just how it is and nothing is going to change. Instead of thinking what are the soultions? Maybe I lack understanding in this area lets ask someone to get better understanding or ok this isn't working what's the next solution. Don't get me wrong there are always going to be people who sees things as wrong but that an issue with them not the game. I think we need to be more open minded about dl. if someone has cocerns help them understand what's going on maybe them understanding might come a big solution that you can't ignore. As an example of things i've heard on game and on build an also conversion i've had with people.

Player-I can do room descriptions easily but items i can't do.

me-Well ask someone for help maybe you can do rooms and they do description

Player-I've tried but no one will help me.

this got me thinking maybe the solution to this was better incentive for staff.

Player- con loss suck and people have tried to get nezmar to change it but he won't

me-I know but maybe the right person hasn't pleaded the case correctly

player-no it's always going to be the same.

this got me thinking how can i get Nezmar to understand that this isn't working? What soutions can i come up with? Maybe i'll ask another player.

I did and this is what i was told.

Maybe bring back exp lost for death? there has to be some penilty for death. I agree with that.

Maybe con loss should just be for rp in rp your roleplaying out of rp it's just a game really.

I could go on but i'm stopping there.

we need to work togeather not be negative and say that's just how it is focus on solutions not focus on problems.

I have more and i'm willing to talk to Nezmar about them anytime he wants too.

Dl is a great game and has great potinital don't give up!!

A couple of points:

1) My chief concern right now is finding a job so that I can afford to pay to run DL. I apologize if I'm slow to respond to problems, but I have some big ones in RL right now. I do not anticipate DL will be taken down because I can't make enough money but that is because this is (obviously) currently my top priority.

2) We *have* made adjustments to constitution loss. Significant ones. We'd added the ability to have a bonus period with no con loss and we've also made it so you cannot lose con while roleplaying.

3) I *am* open to other suggestions, the thing is we need what works best for everyone, not just you. This requires thought, discussion and work. If people just give up, it will never improve. Liniti has the right attitude, if you don't like the way the system is working, there are things you can do to work towards making it more to your liking, such as posting change suggestions. You have to realize though that when you die there *does* need to be some penalty, so just saying, 'Let's get rid of con loss!', that simply doesn't help. We need some concept of balance here.

Best regards,

--Nezmar

you know...if they take the con loss away...they will just substitute it with something else...could be better or worse...

con loss is cool in my opinion...its better than exp loss or something like that...or level loss...

oh well...still a great game...needs slightly more hack n slash stuff....but con loss just makes dying sting more...
can we get rid of the 10-15 minute wait after dying? maybe that would be nicer

Imagine if you had no deity

When you come back from the dead, your deity (or sometimes a PC cleric) will resurrect you. With no deity, you'll just hang around until someone comes along to resurrect you. Ouch!

Staff on PLAYING. That's it..

With exceptions like real life problems, DL needs interaction with staff.

One big differance I see from DL now (2-10 players on) to DL in the late 90's (15-30 on at a time) is staff interacting with players.

I remember you could catch differant groups running around with differant staff members. The kind of staff that didn't care about lvling an alt, camping mobs for a uber item for an alt. Just a normal staff member who enjoyed being staff. Not a player just wanting to have a staff member, for bragging rights.

Imagine you being new and seeing the entire mud running around, not talking, looking like zombies. Because they are doing nothing but loading items and camping mobs.

Imagine being new too DL and hearing groups shouting at other mobs (controled by staff), fighting mobs, armies, rping with staff (not a quest). Just interacting with the mobs in the game and staff. It would look alive..

Anyways, I think that's the problem with DL. People join, but people join and see nothing.. No events, no wars, no interaction at all. Its just a mud of lvling and camping right now.

We need the staff members who love to be a staff member. Who love to interact with the players and play the game, not as a character but as a staff member.

You know, I only half agree with you on this. I love being staff on DL and that's honestly where I've spent about 90% of my DL time in the past 3 or so years. I love hopping into random mobs that people are camping and making some kind of stupid remarks and the players laugh... then annihilate me. It's fun.

It's a catch-22, though. Without the players, the more engaged staff really isn't that motivated to do that kind of thing much. On the flipside, without the staff making the world "come alive", the players lose interest because it becomes a number crunching game and a grind for gear.

What we have to do is figure out how to get things going again. Not with macros, not with 500 new zones, not even with new game features. Think back to the late 90s/early 00s (is that how you would abbreviate that? I have no idea...) and see what was different, aside from code. What was different in the way people played the game? What was different in the way staff ran the game? Most importantly, how can we bring it back?

Another factor is that everyone, staff and player alike, have real life to tend to. Until recently I didn't have a son to take care of. I didn't have a house to take care of. I didn't have anything I *had* to do except pay my bills, which were minimal. I started playing DL when I was 17, about 10, almost 11 years ago. A lot has changed since then, and I know a lot has changed for everyone in that time. What hasn't changed is that we all still like and need to have fun.

So come on, I challenge everyone to come up with some ideas on how to get players back. I'm even going to start a new thread on this. Let's run with it.

Okay, I'm on both sides of a lot of issues. First and foremost, I *always* back Nezmar & Amaessara as having the ultimate and final say in anything. It's their MUD, they birthed it, they have put more blood, sweat, tears, time and money into it than any of us can possibly comprehend. I have absolute total respect and admiration for them in this. I am going to post one issue that seems to not have been touched on for the most part, certainly not from staff side in open public viewing.

I am posting a purely personal post from a strictly staff side - I am not considering my mortal(s) at all. That being said, I do have issues with the way some things are done. I have discussed concerns with Nezmar before but things do just sometimes (read: often) just get put to the 'wait and see' file... So we slide down the slippery slope of passively accepting the mediocrity that slips further into bland and dull. No matter how many hours staff (and believe me, staff puts in thousands and thousands of hours) puts in, we, too, get discouraged, bored and drift off. Sometimes it's life and health issues, sometimes it's seen we are doing more damage than good, and sometimes the magic just dies for us.

Part of what I see as a major reason for it not being fun is that the 'new' deity system, since the pwipe all those years ago, lacks one huge thing: Personality. The personality staff put into it. Yes, we can jump into the NPC and talk the trash of the alignment all we want, yadda yadda, but... I ask if that's *really* something that's fun for players... You don't really get to know your deity and want to follow them and do good/evil or whatever to please them... I'm sure all you old schoolers remember the fun, the rivalry, the excitement. Doing things when your god wasn't around with the excitement of knowing you can tell them what you did in their honor later... Earning the respect and approval of your god with those deeds. The players excitement and fun feeds the staff person as a god and challenges and encourages them to keep 'playing' the role.

I understand the reasons that was changed. Staff 'gods' become less involved, leave, rarely are there and leave their followers dangling... But frankly, isn't that kind of the way it goes? If your god leaves, or you're dissatisfied, find another one, right? If a staff-god is MIA, it's natural for a present and playing staff-god to woo a player over to themselves. I know some staff went 'power tripping' in the old days but there can be checks and balances put in place for that. Yes, there was always drama to deal with, but I find that much preferable to the snails pace of apathy that surrounds the DL deity system now.

Or am I just crazy?

-------
Regards,
Myrrima ~ Distant Lands Administration
Now go vote!!
--Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

I completely agree that the staff gods had a lot more character (no pun intended) than the current set of made-up deities. What I believe gave it that extra burst of flair is that the individual staff gods were able to focus on their own following instead of a couple staff members remembering and controlling multiple NPC deities. For example, Malifaxis was able to focus on just being the "God of Conflict". He did not have to (well, none of us "have" to, but for the sake of argument...) play the role of a good god this day, an evil god the next and a neutral god the next, nevermind remembering what happened with each.

I think that's where some of the allure (staff-wise) to actually put yourself in the god's shoes was lost. While being a staff god, you could focus on just your own thing. You could expend a good portion of your creative energy trying to figure out ways to get your followers to convert other players. Sure, the same can be done with the current set of deities, but there's different personalities and likenesses for each of them that you have to remember. If you stick with just one, for example if I just stuck with Soltarar, then I would only have a handful of people I can cater to.

Staff gods seem to have a lot more attractiveness than NPC gods I suppose because, from a player's perspective, they're more interactive. There's no amount of cool macros or anything that can replace the personality of roleplayer-to-roleplayer interaction.

I DO think that the current pantheon could work, but only if staff and player alike came together to MAKE it work. If a staff member, let's say for example Teodoran, took over the religion of Soltarar and Antaerra, it could work. We could still have our same pantheon without having to revert to the old system, we just need to breathe some life into it. Get the players into it like we used to with the staff-gods. It CAN work. The problem lies with HOW do we make it work?

I believe this is also part of the catch-22 I mentioned earlier. Without the players, the staff becomes more detatched... similarly without the interacting staff to "spice things up", the players become more detatched. It's a vicious cycle that we have to find a way to break. Right now I'm at a loss of how to break this cycle, but I'm willing to give it my all to put DL back on top.

Ok.. first off..

"Or am I just crazy?" WHAT?!?!

YES! Why is this question being asked?! Who on Nas' green earth lead Myrrima to believe there might be a chance she's not crazy?! WHO!??!

I agree with the both of you, and of course, we can't stress enough. Some people have RL issues that come into play and nobody blames them for them. We're all grown ups and understand, life comes before games.

I just think even having staff on to interact with players will help a lot. But most staff would rather play an alt or sit behind the curtains. Neither is wrong, but I say we get some staff who's job is just to play. Understand the rules, know how to rp, and friendly. But no building, no coding, just playing with the characters on DL.

Yes Nas, I always said it, you rock.

Vulsin and I were discussing some of this and we came up with a few points for discussion:

1. We definitely need staff driven interaction via gods - Preferably in RP.
2. We can leave the current deity system in place for those who don't want to RP and the 'resurrection' that needs to happen after death.
3. We can have staff make a separate 'god' name and give all staff-gods the same powers to help 'even' up the playing field of sorts. Then it's truly staff-god and followers against staff-god.
4. Make said staff-god RP ONLY. (This only makes PERFECT SENSE!)
5. This is the best way to inject some 'passion' and life back into the staff, the players and the game.
6. Worst that happens is the 'staff-god' experiment fails and we revert back to the boring, dull and lifeless deity system that is in place now.

These are the high points we came up with so far. It's our firm desire to breath life back into the game and we are willing to do what needs done to do so. It's not a 'coding' thing... it's a human interaction thing. Let's all work together to bring the FUN back!

-------
Regards,
Myrrima ~ Distant Lands Administration
Now go vote!!
--Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.