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 Post subject: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:42 pm 
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MPPs seem to be finally poised to take front and center stage in my mind. I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea, it may be overboard. I'd love to know which ideas you like and don't like... Here's what I'm currently thinking:

* MPP Redeeming needs to be able to be done by each character when they want via a new command.
* MPPs could be able to be turned into gold and/or practice sessions and vice versa.
* MPPs could be used for additional bonus you couldn't normally obtain (a few possible examples: double experience for an hour per MPP spent, double hit point regeneration for an hour per MPP spent, hit for increased damage for an hour per MPP spent).

Currently you can now get MPPs in the game automatically for roleplaying in strict mode for some period of time (set by staff and generally depending upon how well you roleplay). See the end of "help rp" in the game for details.

So what are your ideas for using MPPs? Keep in mind, the best ideas are straight forward and don't require staff interaction (restrings will likely go away or be very limited still, for example).

Best regards to all,

--Nezmar


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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:51 am 
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As a returning player, I must say I've never actually gotten enough MPPs with any of my previous characters to actually put them to use. I like these ideas, they sound like terrific improvements to the game. How it might affect gameplay, I suppose, remains to be seen by how players would utilize the new system.

I have an idea, but it would probably effect the balance of the game.

Enable players to buy skills from a different class, with say, 100 MPPs. Currently, I don't know of anyone with 100 MPPs, so I guess I'm trying to keep class balance, by making this feature available to only the most dedicated players.

Again, it's probably not the best idea.

Here's another one;

Redeem a few MPPs for "Constitution Insurance"
For just a few MPPs, your Constitution will be protected from the potential loss if you are killed, for say, 12 hours of RP. Something like that.


Overall, it seems like MPPs have never really been put to use, but that's just my opinion. Individual results may vary... :wink: I really enjoy this game, I've never even felt the need to touch WoW because of it...

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Dref

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:47 pm 
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Hmm,

I like the ideas on this topic. I have also thought MPP's can be a great tool if used properly. My main suggestion for now would be:

Lets get MPP's working as a balancing tool between people who want to RP mostly and the Hack and Slashers. I haven't checked the exact timers on the strict RP yet so I may be reaching a little but lets say, make 10 MPP's redeemable for a level (Quest Levels obviously being excluded). This will allow people who want to stay strict RP mostly to be able to level at a reasonable pace. XP'ing in RP mode is quite difficult if you're not playing a total homicidal maniac so it will help balance the RP / Hack and Slash element I think. Currently hacking and slashing can get you a level pretty quick, whereas staying in RP would take a lot longer so I dont think being able to use say 10MPP's for an auto level would unbalance things. It may also even encourage some die hard hack and slashers to explore more interesting ways of advancing.

As far as the rest of the ideas such as dmg, hp regen, one death con protection etc. I think they're all good options and would work well.

With regards getting skills, spells, profs which would normally be unatainable this might need looking at. If this was done, I think it should rather be done at staff discretion. Certain classes might become unbalanced being able to achieve whatever ability they wanted, regardless of class restrictions.

The last thought I had on spicing up RP was using MPP's for equipment. Again dedicated RP'ers have major problems getting better / good equipment whereas hack and slashers can camp a mob and wail on it until it loads. I thought of perhaps having an MPP store/shop in the game. Will take a bit of initial planning from the staff and might be interesting if the staff put up occassional little gems up for grabs in the store. Would allow RP'ers to have a chance at getting some good equipment and might again help encourage hack and slashers to get a little more involved in RP.

My 2 cents - lemme know what you think.

Bannik.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:00 pm 
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With the idea of transferring mpps for skills/spells/profs I would think that it would have to be limited to the classes that character gains through avatar. Even more so to limit it to only if you have surpassed or are currently in that class at a given time. Maybe even going back and using said mpps to upgrade your proficiency in those areas to make them master instead of having some max out at quite adept, etc.

That's just I believe at least. I like the rest of the ideas, we just need more people to hop on here and toss some around. :)

The Guildinator

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Your thoughts are most excellent and appreciated. :)

I actually had a different thought regarding incorporating spells into MPPs. Rather than having it permanent, it would actually trigger the spell. So for say maybe 2 MPPs a warrior could cast a sanctuary one time on himself (it would actually automatically happen upon MPP turn in, the player wouldn't actually "cast"). I thought we might include the major protection spells (sanctuary, fireshield, iceshield, anti-magic shell) and possibly others.

One of the reasons MPPs haven't been used much in the past is because very few people have the ability to implement the changes required when you turn them in. Because of that, we significantly limited giving them out. With an automated turn in system, we'd no longer have that problem. Also allowing people to turn practices/gold into MPPs would help make them accessible to all.

Keep the ideas coming!

Best regards,

--Nezmar


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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:57 am 
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Don't forget to add "Life Gate" onto that list.

Dref

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:07 am 
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While I'm not sure of the quantities that would be necessary to achieve these MPP wishes, here's some of my ideas categorized into "tiers"; the higher the tier, the more MPPs would be necessary to achieve the desired effect.

Tier 1
o +1 point to any attribute from 1 to 18
o Improved Strength, Levitation, Shield, Armor, Bless, and similar "buff" spells (one spell at a time)
o Detect Invisibility, True Sight, Detect Alignment, Sense Life (and similar "detection" spells - one at a time)

Tier 2
o Repair any piece of player-repairable equipment to "excellent" (ONLY items a player can repair)
o 10 game hours of "constitution insurance" - prevents constitution loss upon death for effect duration.
o Double experience or double regeneration per hour per MPP spent

Tier 3
o +1 point to any attribute from 19 to 23
o Add x hp/mp/sp/pp/mv per MPP used (limited to a static number.. if 10 MPPs needed, then 10 can only be used at a time)
o Temporary high resistance to bashing (10 hour maximum, perhaps?) - NOT IMMUNITY TO BASH
o Improved Strength, Levitation, Shield, Armor, Bless, and similar "buff" spells (all spells at once)
o Increased damage or protection per hour per MPP spent
o Detect Invisibility, True Sight, Detect Alignment, Sense Life (and similar "detection" spells - all at once)

Tier 4
o Sanctuary, Fireshield, Ice Shield, Blade Barrier, Life Gate, Anti-Magic Shell (one spell at a time, with normal restrictions)
o 1 level, excluding advancement to levels 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 225, 250, 275 and 300
o Guarantee to pick one lock of any durability (excludes pickproof - MUST have proper 'pick lock' skill level to open lock)
o Improve any currently available skill/spell/prof one proficiency level past class maximum.

Tier 5
o Repair a piece of equipment to "excellent", regardless of material (includes unknowns, organics, containers, etc...)
o Add a "special effect" to an item (think: cracklers, +damage, +melee.. with restrictions)
o Chance to open a pickproof lock without a key (must have 'pick master lock' mastered)
o Obtain one class/avatar class skill/spell/prof earlier than normal

Of course this is just a list off the top of my head, and including some of the redemption ideas discussed already within this thread.

Some clarification for some things above:
Improving a skill/spell/prof "one skill level" means if you max at "fairly capable", it would bring it up to "well skilled". If you max out at "expert", it would go up to "master."
"Normal restrictions" for Sanctuary, Fireshield, etc means that you cannot have two aura spells affecting you at the same time, just like how the game is now. You cannot have Fireshield and Sanctuary affecting you at the same time.

A decision has to be made on the spells so their duration can be calculated. Perhaps level 300 casting would be good, or would it be better to base it off of the level of the spell recipient? Since there is no "caster", there would be no "caster level" to go off of.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:54 pm 
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I swear Vulsin, your brain never quits does it. Also, If I'm not too bold to say so, I think he summed up a lot of ideas in his 'tier system' that I could ever toss out. +1 to Vulsin.

The Guildinator

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:58 pm 
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Agreed, the tier system sounds pretty useful as-is. Kudos!

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:59 pm 
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Yeah, I don't really know how to switch off... nor do I really want to :)

Also thought about a couple more

Tier 1 or 2... 10 game hours of increased stealth. Basically you would be guaranteed to hide/sneak successfully for the effect duration.
Tier 3... guarantee to steal one stealable item (excludes bronze tubes, etc) OR (if gold is attempted to be stolen) if you successfully make a steal attempt for coins, you steal double gold than you normally would have (up to the maximum of gold the target is carrying.)
Tier 4... 10 game hours of increased backstab OR assassinate accuracy. Not double, not guaranteed... but just an increase in accuracy.

Perhaps some of the more powerful ones can be limited to how many times per realtime day you can use them so that way someone can't just keep turning 50K told into MPPs and get increased damage, for example. Could DRASTICALLY offset game balance, and that wouldn't be cool, now would it :)

One thing we do have to work out is exchange rates for MPPs to gold (and vice versa.) I think it would be easier to figure out once we figure out how many MPPs it would take to achieve each wish, and then make the ratio accordingly. So who's got some ideas for how many MPPs this stuff should cost? How about some MORE ideas to add to the mix :)

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Seeing as how I've never had more than 10 MPPs at a time, I think it's safe to say that MPPs are less common that spare practices (Currently I've got about 300...) which are less common than gold.

So, how about a 1/10/10000 style relationship? in other words, 1 MPP is worth 10 practices, and let's say you could buy a practice for 1000 gold? so 1 MPP = 10 pracs = 10000 gold? It's at least a starting point to think about what you can do with converting MPPs.

I don't know how to truly assess the value of an MPP in terms of gold. For some, it's priceless, I'm sure. If we factor in the price of purchasing an in-game house (roughly 1 million gold for the basic) I suppose the value of an MPP is closer to 50,000 gold, making extra practices worth 5,000?

Instead of limiting the maximum # of tiered skills/spells/whatever to a certain # per day, perhaps limit MPP spending to maybe 25 a day, or another established limit. Or, you could make one tier 5 redemption a day, or, 5 tier 1 redemptions in the same time-frame. Depending on how the tiers end up working, that might help control the balance.


If you want another idea to add to the mix (and this is outside the scope of the current topic) Shouldn't the spell Earthquake have a random chance of knocking the opponent of it's feet? It's a freakin Earthquake afterall!

Establish an MPP bank/redemption center? You can only withdraw/deposit X amount of MPPs per day, or carry 25 a day? Impractical?

That's all I've got, after 10 minutes of pondering, Dref

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:46 pm 
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Dref stabbed upon the same basic exchange rate I was thinking about. Excluding practices for a moment I calculated that one MPP would be worth 10,000 gold. I figured on that because to even get like he said a house (needing roughly 1 million+), that is still a large exchange for just MPPs to deliver upon. 1 MPP = 10,000G | 100 MPPs = 1 Million Gold. That is mainly factoring in that in roleplay, not everyone can run around, do a little slaughtering or stealing and accumulate gold. With 100 MPPs currently equaling 100 game hours, I think that's a pretty good call then. That is, unless something along the lines of employment or the influx of more tasks.

With that said, the exchange rate of practices to gold or MPPs could work as 10. Currently, most of my higher leveled characters have well beyond 200+ practices. In this example I'll use Guildus. Currently he is level 149 and has 305 practices. Now I know I don't want to use up all my practices to get gold or MPPs so maybe I'll just use 250 and leave the other 55 on the side. With the exchange rate as mentioned that would only be 25 MPPs, which honestly isn't that much for how many practices I just sacrificed to get them. In turn it merely calculates into 250,000 gold, which honestly isn't a too large or too small of a trade off either.

Just thought I'd toss that in, and good idea Dref! :D

The Guildinator

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:47 pm 
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Well, I think the upper limits as far as how many MPPs a person is able to get will ultimately be decided by their Gold value.

I/E 1 MPP @ 10 gold, means everyone's got 10 MPPs per $100, way too many MPPs, and terribly unbalanced.

1 MPP @ 1000 gold, means 10 MPPs per $10000, still a large number of MPPs, especially for avatars who've been saving up $.

1 MPP @ 5000 gold, 20 MPPs per $100,000, which sounds more practical, but then again, MPPs won't help younger players, mainly avatars/ high level mortals. Dref as a player probably only makes 2000 coins a day, on average.


Perhaps the tiers also need to be bracketed by level, start using tier 1 during levels 10-20, add tier 2 levels 21-40, etc. Along with level adjusted MPP/Gold redemption rates.

Might help the balance gameplay somewhat, until an avatar gives a player 100,000 gold, at a 1 MPP/ $1000 gold ratio... :wink:

Just more things to think about.

Dref

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:15 pm 
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It occurs I never addressed the MPP cost per tier. perhaps the tiers should start at 3-5 MPPs, and then increment from there equally. Again, if you set a max spending of 25 MPPs per day, it could break down as one tier 5 redemption, or one tier 4 + one tier 1, one tier 3 + one tier 2, etc... @ 5 MPPs X tier level.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-Purpose Points
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:27 pm 
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The numbers you are throwing around are EXACTLY the initial numbers I came up with (1/10/10000) when I was brain storming about this. LOTS of good ideas, SOME of them WILL be used. Great feedback! Keep it coming!

Best regards,

--Nezmar


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